No-Start Condition - 2009 SIII

[Whisperhead]

Hello all,

I hope you've had a better Easter than I did.

The car is a 2009 SIII, and it has developed a no-start condition. I can hear the fuel pump whirr, the starter turns over, the battery has plenty of power, but it will not fire. Initially it would start but would sit at ridiculously low revs (200-300) and was "hunting" for idle, but then eventually died off a few seconds later. Now, it does not fire at all.

Ive got a Crankshaft Position Sensor (part number 39180-23500 if anyone ends up endlessly having to Google search for it), and I'm waiting for that, but in the meantime can anyone here suggest other areas I could inspect, just in case it isn't my CKPS?

I've tried removing and cleaning the particles from the current sensor, then refitting it, but it hasn't made any difference. If it is this sensor that's the problem, then it's completely dead.

Interestingly, the car hasn't thrown any codes, but I think I read elsewhere here that when the Crank sensor fails, the car doesn't throw a code. Can anyone help?

[Whisperhead]

Update - I've replaced the Crank sensor with an aftermarket item, same part number as mine, different manufacturer. No joy. Exactly the same issue, the car turns over and over and over but will not fire.

Any suggestions?

[Lordycoupe]

Out of curiosity is there key symbol when turn the key into position 2 before attempting too crank ? very common fault is the BCM body control module if they get water ingress or condensation in anyway it fries and kills them till the BCM is repaired my current coupe and the one before had the same problem of non starting both cars show the key symbol which shows that immobilizer has been activated and no longer provides a clear singlal too rest of the management system too engage and crank the car.

[Whisperhead]

Yes, the yellow key-inside-car symbol does pop up, and disappears when cranking. I'm hoping that means it isn't an immobiliser problem?

I'm praying it isn't the BCM, is there anyway to visually inspect it without pulling it from the car?

On a side note, I've noticed there is no spark from the plugs when cranking (tested by grounding one on the engine). Do ignition modules fail on these cars?

It's completely out of the blue - this car has been so reliable the last 5 years and suddenly it just refuses to start. I don't get it.

[Lordycoupe]

Right okay you haven't got a scan too at all by any chance?
When I had my issue with BCM I was able too get a code reader the BCM is located on the driver side there is small flap that you can open where fuses live also same location ob2 port you can also check too see if it's wet at all and can give you a tell tale sign if that is the issue.

Condensation water or if wet really buggers them up and prevents cranking and spark when the immobiliser is activated.

It's a very common fault with the coupes the BCM failing out of the blue.

No start no crank and other electrical gremlins point too that is a possibility.

There is someone that can repair these he's really good In fact he was the one that sorted my first coupe and my current you send away the BCM remove the motor he gets it works his magic sends it back and you plug it and perfect fired straight away.
Fingers crossed it isn't the issue but a visual check inspection is deffo recommended when mine failed had a ob2 code reader and it did show that the immobiliser was active non stop I had a I carsolft pro kit.

Basic OBD2 should do but more advanced will be a lot better.
I'll try too help you out as much possible and the club members here too.

[Lordycoupe]

Have you also checked your plugs HT leads for any sign of where and tear?

[Whisperhead]

Thanks Lordy, I appreciate the help a lot. It's really foxed me. I do have a semi-decent scan tool, but the car isn't throwing any codes. The electrics all work fine, windows, wipers, lights, central locking.

Ill have to get my head in the footwell again and check for moisture in there. I had that problem with my old Smart Roadster, the SAM unit (main ECU) got wet and I was very lucky - caught it in time. Had to dry the PCBs out in the airing cupboard and coat all the boards in liquid electrical tape to waterproof them. Ridiculously poor design!

Having swapped out the Crank sensor, is it possible the camshaft sensor might be dead instead? Does that happen on these cars?

I've heard about this fellow who repairs the boards of they're damaged, unfortunately it's absolutely freezing out tonight so I might have to scavenge the BCM out tomorrow now.

[Rick]

When you turn on your ignition does the key symbol flash say 3 times if it does its the dreaded water in the BCM but the is a person on Facebook called Mike James of Pro-Lux Electronics. Contact him and he should be able to sort it

[Lordycoupe]

That's the guy same fella that did my bcm's highly recommend really great too do business with.

[Whisperhead]

When you turn on your ignition does the key symbol flash say 3 times

Do you mean when I turn the key to accessory only, or when I turn it all the way to crank?

[Lordycoupe]

When you turn on your ignition does the key symbol flash say 3 times

Do you mean when I turn the key to accessory only, or when I turn it all the way to crank?

Did you check it out in the end yeah it's when the key is turned too either postion one or two if it flashes more then three times then it's deffo the BCM.

Both of mine suffered from the same problem and mike James sorted them out for me and doesn't cost an arm and leg charged me £65 quid and got it back within a week he's damn good got too say with his craft.

[Whisperhead]

That sounds like a good solution, I appreciate the info - I've been so busy with work this week, but I will certainly check. Last time I went to start it, the key-inside-car icon was solid, not flashing, and went off after attempting start (I guess that means it's ok). I'll bear it in mind however, thank you Lordy.

I've decided to try a genuine Hyundai sensor, which was £50, and I'm fitting it this evening. I'll update when that's done, with part number.

Wish me luck!

[Whisperhead]

OK so a genuine Hyundai sensor installed, still no change at all. The car just continues to turn over and over but will not fire. So it can't be the crank sensor that's failed.

The key icon remains lit while the key is in Accessory mode (both position 1 and 2) but on turning the engine over it quickly goes out and doesn't come back, so not an immobiliser issue either.

HT leads are fine, nice and clean inside.

This is really confusing me now. Short of removing the BCM, which is going to be a true pain the arse, are there any other culprits I can check? Can I test the coil pack?

[Rick]

Still sounds like the BCM

Send it to Mike and if he can't repair it or I presume there's nothing wrong with it I don't think he charges you. Contact him to find out

[Whisperhead]

I think I'll have to - I'm going try attempt to pull the BCM tomorrow, so I guess I'll know then. I wish this damned rain would let up!

[Lordycoupe]

I think I'll have to - I'm going try attempt to pull the BCM tomorrow, so I guess I'll know then. I wish this damned rain would let up!

viewtopic.php?t=29220

Have a read of this link here which will help.
Click on the picture or link and will give you a full brief down on his service.

[Whisperhead]

Thank you for the info, I sent my BCM off yesterday so I will report back with an update once it's back with me.

[Lordycoupe]

Let us know how you get on and fingers crossed you'll have a coupe that will fire up for you again

[Whisperhead]

I've just heard back from Mike, who had an answer for me very quickly- the BCM is not faulty, all connections are perfect. I must admit it didn't look as though there had been any water ingress but it was better to rule it out.

So back to the drawing board. Once the module arrives back here, he has advised that I trace the voltages through the ignition system, which I'll try once it's reinstalled.

Would a camshaft sensor produce this condition? Or am I likely to be looking at a wiring issue, or heaven forbid a coilpack?

[Whisperhead]

Okay another update.

I've spent some time going a bit deeper - camshaft sensor looks in fine condition, I examined it out of curiosity mainly.
However I may have discovered the issue - I pulled the HT leads from the plugs again, and though they look to be in fine condition, I metered them on 2k Ohms using the NewtonNet servicing manual for guidance (resistance should be 5.6k Ohms / number of meters).

Well leads 1, 2 and 3 are all open circuit. Lead 4 meters at 1505k Ohms which is probably on the high side as its the shortest one.

So I'm going to assume these are the culprit for now, and replace them.

I also followed the servicing guidance for the ignition coil. Both 2/3 and 4/1 output towers meter at 8.9k Ohms (which is pretty much where they should be), though at the socket pins, they meter at 0.12 Ohms, where it should be 0.58 Ohms.

Should I replace the coil too?

[Shel]

I would replace one thing at a time personally, coil packs rarely give trouble and if the readings are uniform across the pins I would wait and just replace the leads. Coupes can tend to eat plug leads quite suddenly, two of mine literally died a death after pulling out of a garage.

[Whisperhead]

Well, I finally got my leads, after the parts store messing me about and making me wait an additional day.

I've just fitted the new leads, and the car is still not firing. So I'm buying a replacement coil tonight.

It's still not throwing any codes either. What on earth is wrong with my car?

[Shel]

Had a thought this evening, what alarm system/remote fob have you got? Some of the later Coupe systems had a secondary immobiliser controlled by by and programmed into the alarm system. So despite using the correct key to deactivate the OEM built in in immobiliser the alarm one could still be active. Heard of this on a few Coupes over the years, I take it the fob and alarm system are working correctly and that the original key is being used?

[Whisperhead]

I'm not sure how to identify it - what different types are there? I have two keys, both with a fob each, the same on both. Three buttons, one is red for activating the alarm, one for locking and one for unlocking. I can upload a photo if needed.
Car locks/unlocks just fine, and the keys are genuine originals.

I'm collecting the replacement ignition coil tomorrow so ill update once that's fitted regardless.

[Whisperhead]

OK, new ignition coil is in. Still no change.
It continues to turn over and over like a champ, but I just cannot get it to fire. One thing I've noticed in the utter silence inside my car is that the fuel pump whirr when turning onto Accessory with the key seems to last between 4 and 5 seconds. Is that a normal length of time?

I'm going to check the plugs again when it decides to stop absolutely pissing it down outside, just in case they were wrecked when the HT leads went. Does anyone have any other suggestions?